Little Green Racists
Aug 31, 2002
Notwithstanding the evident message of racism in the popular weblog Little Green Footballs, what concerns me the most is that there has not been a vocal blog-wide resistance against it already.
That includes me too, as when I first realized that the writers of LGF were way off base and couldn't be talked out of their racist message I just stopped reading it, without even posting about it. Shame on me.
Hopefully, Neale, Anil Dash and Henning will bring attention to this fact, as it has brought it back to me.
LGF has become a propaganda machine of hatred towards Muslims and Arabs. Like a KKK discussion board or Neo-Nazi site it tars a group with the same brush - always attacking, always negative, always making general accusations and encouraging hatred; but because it is anti-Islam, LGF is growing in support. Will the weblog community treat LGF the same way it treated Clearguidance.com? Is it brave enough? Wetlog
While I realize Charles is not obliged to post both sides of the Islam story, I would say that by not doing so he is certainly predjudicing any discussion on his site towards the negative. Also, I would argue that Charles is responsible for his site, warts and all. He is certainly encouraging the negative comments - and he's condoning it by not removing any hate-speech from the site. It's within his power to say - "hey, that's overboard, I'm deleting it from the site." - but he chooses not to. This has led to more and more extremist views to come through over the past few months, and it's slowly falling into certain racism. Wetlog Comments
Read the entry at Wetlog, and Anil Dash's, and if it at all bothers you -- if you even have an opinion on the fact -- that a weblog like LGF with over ten thousand readers, increasingly becoming one of the most searched for weblogs, conveys a racist message, then write about it in your own blog.
Or is racism against Muslims and Arabs acceptable? If we accept any form of racism against any group of people, then racism as a concept is approved and can easier root itself yet again.
Comments
Posting to LGF just gives him more buzz, and his hatred gets enough attention as it is. My hope is that after the anniversary, people's hatred and need for revenge lessens to the point that folks will realize that LGF really has nothing to said that other bigots and racists haven't said before.
Comment by Burningbird at 15:38, 31 Aug, 2002 #
I was referring to posting in ones own blog.. maybe I should make that more clear.. Thanks.
Comment by tomas at 15:47, 31 Aug, 2002 #
Checked the website out. Typical american ideas about placing blame. He doesn't even approach the news he writes about in a critical way. Amateur. People are stupid, there's nothing you can do to change that, I'm afraid. If you don't approach media and 9/11 in a critical way (and reflect on it) you might as well follow the path to destruction alongside George W. Bush...
Comment by talisyn at 09:41, 01 Sep, 2002 #
Unfortunately, LGF is a very popular weblog and voices should be raised against it.
Comment by tomas at 13:51, 01 Sep, 2002 #
The reality is, he's got tens of thousands of readers, and those of us who disagree with the overall tenor and tone of the arguments are being either too weak or too lazy to go and refute them. I'm almost as disappointed in those who, like me, are offended by many of the comments as I am by those who make them.
That's probably my next question, why we *don't* react more strongly to this stuff.
Comment by Anil at 00:06, 02 Sep, 2002 #
Maybe because it's so much easier to just look the other way..
Comment by tomas at 00:46, 02 Sep, 2002 #
> then write about it in your own blog.
done. available at http://www.somebodydial911.com/archives/000513.php
Comment by Jason at 08:27, 02 Sep, 2002 #
after 9-11, i joined (and am still co-moderator of) an e-group called no-hate, the purpose of which was to raise awareness of, and work against violence and hatred against Arab/Muslims.
the group has been silent lately. wonder if i can get them going with this.
great post.
Comment by kd at 09:19, 03 Sep, 2002 #
opposing hatred in all its forms
Trackback from kd: a blog at 09:41, 03 Sep, 2002 #
"Or is racism against Muslims and Arabs acceptable?"
"rac·ism Pronunciation Key (rszm) n.
The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race."
Arabs aren't a 'race'. They are an ethnic group, or a nationality, depending on how you view it -- they are in fact part of a larger racial group, but Arabs alone don't constitute a racial category. Nor are Muslims a race; they are a religious group. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the term 'racism' is being played pretty fast and loose here. The terms you're grasping for are 'bigotry' and 'intolerance.' Let's keep our terms straight. Or are we just hoping that the word 'racism' will be the big squirt of lighter fluid on the fire, inaccurate though it may be?
Comment by Jen at 04:15, 04 Sep, 2002 #
Jen,
you must've missed the comment on LGF that referred to "black ghetto gang niggaz." It's at http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=3856#c0004. Though you're right about racism against Muslims and Arabs being incorrect, you're wrong about the term being inappropriateyly used to describe the comments being posted (and neither removed nor edited) at LGF.
Comment by Jason at 05:08, 04 Sep, 2002 #
Jen: "[Arabs] are in fact part of a larger racial group, but Arabs alone don't constitute a racial category".
Oh no!
Comment by tomas at 11:32, 04 Sep, 2002 #
I think you're mistaking me: I'm not indicating that comments such as the one Jason offers are not racist; I DO, however, point out that anti-Arab or anti-Muslim sentiment is not racist. It's many bad things, but racism it's not.
What I don't want to see, frankly, is the very powerful term of 'racism' (which, sadly, can still be applied to far too many actual instances of color bias) diluted through use for which it was not intended. I don't want to see that term diminished. I'd like to see racism itself diminished, certainly.
Tomas: To address your last remark. I'm part of a larger racial group -- white. If someone starts a bigoted campaign against Germans (which is part of my heritage) I don't start screaming 'racism! racism!'. Because it's NOT racism. It's bigotry, prejudice, or intolerance, but just because I'm white and Germans are white doesn't mean whites are being attacked.
I'm not arguing in favor of racism. I'm not arguing in favor of bigotry. But I am arguing that when you dilute your terms, you diminsh both your current and future arguments. Semantics are powerful.
For that matter, I'd like to see the concept of color=race go away. Unfortunately it's still largely defined that way for a majority of the people I run into. We're the human race. We come in a lot of colors. Sheesh.
Comment by Jen at 12:20, 04 Sep, 2002 #
Wow, you really did manage to find the true relevance of the post, didn't you? It's not what most people think; the message of hatred and intolerance, as you put it, but the fact that I described it with the wrong word.
'Atta girl!
Comment by tomas at 12:30, 04 Sep, 2002 #
Just to be a pain in the ass, Thomas, I'm gonna have to agree with Jen about the wrong choice of words. And why are you all so alarmed about the fact that this blog (LGF) is read by so many people? It's not people with any power that writes in it. It's just common, ignorant fuckheads that don't know anything. I'm personally more afraid of Bush and his crusade than of some idiots playing investigative reporters...
Comment by talisyn at 17:14, 04 Sep, 2002 #
Well, Thalisyn, I guess if I had to pick just one thing in the world to care about, LGF wouldn't qualify.
Luckily, I'm able to care about several things at once.
At the lowest level, as LGF is already one of the most popular weblogs on the internet, he is giving blogs a bad name.
At a higher level, he is providing a platform to foster prejudice and intolerance, which is something I happen to dislike.
But, maybe I should follow your example(?) and write only about things of great magnitude and importance to world order?
Comment by tomas at 21:44, 04 Sep, 2002 #
It might interest all of you to know that, after some extensive debate, not one person has defended the substance of this attack against LGF. Neale is attempting to do so now, as you can see for yourselves at his website, assuming you bother. Perhaps you prefer to spread hateful charges of racism and neo-Nazism against sites that you don't like. You certainly haven't lost any time, and neither have the other people you named above. You're already soliciting more subscriptions for the slander.
Some of us think that these charges are serious, and no giggling matter. But then, some of us believe in free speech and fair play. And some people don't.
Comment by Glen Wishard at 00:37, 05 Sep, 2002 #
By the way, if you were to make a cursory examination of the current international debate on Israel and Palestine, you would know that hateful organizations like the Ku Klux Klan and the various neo-Nazi organizations are on the opposite side of the debate from LGF. They have allied themselves with Islamic radicals and terrorists, and are calling for the destruction of Israel. To further this cause, they are making a determined effort to infiltrate the anti-globalization and peace movements.
So would you think it fair to have your own views associated with the likes of David Duke and the disgusting August Kreis? I wouldn't think it was fair. So maybe you should think carefully before you spread such slanders about others.
Comment by Glen Wishard at 03:03, 05 Sep, 2002 #
I'm not hypothesizing as to wether LGF conveys a message of hatred against all Muslims and Arabs, I'm reading it.
"After some extensive debate, not one person has defended the substance of this attack against LGF"?
That's nice, run along and play now.
Comment by tomas at 10:30, 05 Sep, 2002 #
Glen Wishard: I just like to comment on your note about KKK not supporting LGFs view on Israel.
Well, there's a shock. An antisemitic group and a nazi group that wants to get rid of Israel! Stop the presses, this has to be the biggest scoop in mankind.
Comment by Talisyn at 10:40, 05 Sep, 2002 #
unfortunately, things have degraded to the level of nit-picking and semantics. i believe the point here is that LGF has chosen to foster an atmosphere in which hatred and intolerance flourish. it is certainly his right to let that happen without doing anything to counteract or contradict the expressions of ignorance that follow his posts. certainly if one posts in an inflammatory manner, extremists are bound to use that as an 'in'. if it were my site i would immediately speak out against the ignorant, and yes, racist comments that followed my posts. Mr. LGF chooses not to. i choose to have a problem with that.
Comment by kd at 11:33, 05 Sep, 2002 #
The major problem with LGF is that the author only chooses to highlight one side of the story. Fine, he's allowed to do that, but the problem which arises is that feebleminded people tend to see his posts as absolute truth. There can never be just one truth. Truth is flexible, at best. I wonder what would happen if he starts posting other views and ideas. It would be an interesting thing to see what happens...
Comment by talisyn at 11:41, 05 Sep, 2002 #
It's not a matter of wether or not he is in his legal right. Were he not I'd not be calling for people to voice their opinions, but for lawmen to.
He chooses to foster an atmosphere of intolerance, hatred and prejudice, as kd eloquently put it. I choose to voice my opinion against him doing so.
Comment by tomas at 11:47, 05 Sep, 2002 #
Very well, I will run away and play, and trouble your councils no more. My intention was only to show you that at the other end of politically-charged accusations of "racism" are real human beings, some of whom are friends of mine. The implication of being called "Nazi" is very ugly to Jews, and to Americans, the Ku Klux Klan is a particularly vile and hateful association. These are the emotions that underlie the debate of the moment.
But I assure you, LGF isn't going away. Nor are the many other sites which offer open forums for debate. Out of the messy process of free expression, humane opinion is sometimes born. Censorship and McCarthyism, on the other hand, will never breed anything but more ignorance and hatred.
I'm a utopian on the subject, though. I believe that the day will come when all nations share the earth in peace -- Christian, Muslim, Jew, and all others. We're not going to shut up in the meantime. (The Arabs and Palestinians will be there to share that day of peace. So will Israel, which will not be destroyed. We will stand by her, and she will survive.) Best wishes to all.
Comment by Glen Wishard at 19:46, 05 Sep, 2002 #
That's nice Glen. I don't recall ever calling for censorship or any other label you'd like to throw at me, however.
Run along back and play with your arab- and muslim-hating prejudice friends now.
Comment by tomas at 20:37, 05 Sep, 2002 #
The only problem I have with LGF (apart from the obvious one of anti-arab/muslim propaganda) is that it's not critical. The writer seems to believe what the media is feeding him, and so does the people "debating" his entries (even though it's not really a debate since everyone seems to agree on the same bullshit).
The media on their turn take their orders from the american government. This is even noticed in the Swedish media, that's how far the long arm of uncle Sam reaches. If you don't think for yourself and reflect upon what the government/media try to showe down your throat you're dangerously close of turning into a follower. A mob is probably the lowest form humans can take on. Docile, stupid and dangerous. Beware not to turn into a follower...
Comment by talisyn at 23:13, 05 Sep, 2002 #
I had a friend who takes the word of this site as Gospel. He is no longer my friend.
And the articles are NOT truthful, despite all LGF may say. When He's Not Charles Johnson reports that Time magazine did not use the word "terrorist" to describe Arafat and calls that proof of Time's racist intent, when The Big Unit reports that Holland has a large amount of Muslim immigration, then speculates that Holland will soon institute shari'a, when CJ and the Bear report that a Palestinian woman planned to kill her baby in a suicide bombing as proof of the depravity of Muslims, when she planned to wrap the bomb like a baby (still not acceptable, but in no way killing your own child) -- That isn't reporting. It's utter bullshit, and it physically hurts me tha I cannot come to this waste of human flesh's house and beat the stupid out of him with a length of rebar.
You claim that the "regulars" tell the racists they go too far, but this is BULLSHIT. Give me one example in the past... oh, five days, of this happening. I could give you plenty of examples of contemptuous excuses for sentient creatures proving once and for all why the entire human race should be reduced to ashes and silence.
Comment by Mookie at 05:30, 11 Sep, 2002 #
People's Exhibit 8, Your Honor.
http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=4076#comments
Comment by Mookie at 01:13, 12 Sep, 2002 #
Thanks, Mookie.
Comment by tomas at 01:20, 12 Sep, 2002 #
You the same tomas that posted on LGF? I seem to remember someone by that name, before I was banned. (I love how they said EVERY comment I made was abusive, whether it was or not. And yes, some of my comments were indeed VERY abusive, especially against van Helsing and his ilk. But hey, at least I hate and want to brutally murder individuals, not an entire religion or race.)
Can any of you LGF defenders explain to me why the fact that not every newsmedia outlet is reporting every scrap of garbage that floats down LGF, that means the media's "suppressing" it?
Why every God-damned poster there claims the motivations behind EVERY action are anti-Semitism, and that the only reason any entity could ever do anything BUT kill Pal protestors is because they approve of anyone who doesn't like the Jews?
Or how saying things like "just fucking nuke Mecca" aren't offensive?
Or how they purport to stand for freedom, yet would be all to glad to strip the right of free speech or freedom of assembly from anyone they don't agree with?
Or how the Hell I'm supposed to get this giant-ass watermelon over to the beach shack when there's 7,000 devil flippy birds in my way and the melon explodes if I so much as fart? God DAMN I hate this level.
Comment by Mookie at 02:41, 12 Sep, 2002 #
I only made a handful of comments over at LGF, and that was months ago, I'm probably not the Tomas you've seen over there.
Comment by tomas at 08:32, 12 Sep, 2002 #
I propose we destroy all life with a mechanical horror.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=4098#comments
"Recovering Liberals" + "Ha ha, all liberals are evil! LET'S ROLL LOL"
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=4093#comments
This is absolutely disgusting. I mean absolutely fucking disgusting. This was a fucking HOAX, and yet do you hear ANYONE talking about that? No, they're either ignoring entirely the fact it's a hoax, or claiming that it really isn't and that the media is covering it up because they (surprise!) hate Jews! Especially good (and by good I mean "fills me with omnicidal rage") is the people saying stuff like "This is proof that we need to deport or kill all the filthy towel head sand nigger dune coons, LET'S ROLL!" Yeah, a hoax is proof of a lot of shit, you worthless chucklefucks.
I probably should be posting this there instead of here, but He's Not Charles Johnson banned me from their "open and unmoderated" forum for not agreeing with him.
Comment by Mookie at 22:32, 13 Sep, 2002 #
I just happened onto this site. I know I'm way late to the party, but I would like to comment anyway.
Mookie,
You're a liar. You were not banned from LGF because you disagreed with Charles, and you know it.
Tomas,
Your responses to Glen Wishard's comments say a lot about you. And you're more than welcome to Mookie. Good luck.
Comment by lateasusual at 02:34, 03 Nov, 2002 #
lateasusual: It's going to take quite an incredible argument from you, Glen or anyone else, to convince me that I have not seen racism, intolerance, hatred, bigotry, and so forth, ad infinitum. Hence, I don't feel any need to argue his moot points.
Comment by Tomas at 14:07, 03 Nov, 2002 #
Well, I thought I would check out LGF to offer a more moderate view. I spent a lot of time posting yesterday and have decided that there is a racist element on the site and that the others there find a moderate viewpoint more offensive than a racist viewpoint. Draw your own conclusions from that.
I was of the opinion that the best way to counter the hatred was to participate and drown out some of the noise. Unfortunately they seem more interested in agreeing with each other than engaging in a serious debate. Options? Get more people to post an alternate view (and thus create a real discussion) or dismiss them as irrelevant and closed-minded and move on. Life's too short to bother with them, I think.
Comment by Steve R at 10:38, 28 Nov, 2002 #
Steve R: Thanks for your input.
Unfortunately, those of us who are able to spot obvious bigotry is a minority at LGF.
Comment by Tomas at 11:54, 28 Nov, 2002 #
The discussion has been closed on this entry. Thanks to everybody who participated.